Raise the salary of core team member Artem

Proposals Protocol and Governance
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21

I actually agree with this regarding the arb activity…bad optics. Perhaps I don’t fully understand what it was he was doing, but that kind of left a bad taste in the mouth with all things considered. With that said, I think the 1M existing wealth outside project should not have any bearing on his compensation whatsoever.

He’s a quality dev and obviously we should do what is necessary to keep him and others like him around, but everyone agreed to the current levels of compensation to bootstrap this thing just a couple weeks ago. If they feel like it needs to increase, I’m sure multisig will let us know, at which point we will fully support. I echo @TheSouthSeaCompany opposition and say leave it to them.

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22

Agree private finances are private, I just felt it was necessary to include because the arbing i felt was so unnecessary in light of it.

And well outside the project, I’d say much of this is YFI wealth related. But agreed personal finances shouldnt be considered when making salary decisions.

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23

I don’t feel like increases in yUSD should count towards someone’s raise or subtract from it. Also, I agree with @TheSouthSeaCompany that we should be letting the multisig handle these matters as they know best what people are working on and the effort they are putting in. It shouldn’t become a popularity contest. I think all senior devs and junior devs should be paid the same. I personally don’t fault @banteg for running a bot; we all do trading in crypto, and acting like we don’t is kind of disingenuous. Now if people are trading on insider info that is a different matter in my mind.

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24

Well given that he as yearn staff probably had very immediate access and knowledge about the contracts, i’d consider this insider insider info and really a very bad look for yearn.

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25

i don’t understand you @milkyklim, this hasn’t been discussed for even one day, there are issues with the proposal text, yet you rush it to be voted ?

the proposal how-tos say at least 3 days discussion (authored by banteg himself):

why the urgency? also, when are staff salaries paid, at the end of the month or at the beginning? i’d guess at the end then this doesn’t really need to be rush or am i wrong?

also how are there already so many votes when the text was not even clear for everybody?? is this a real proposal or just a sentiment indicator? i hope real proposals are given more dedication.

1 Like
26

A general question- new to YFI voting in the Gov pool- is this Artem’s full time gig? If so, 150k seems reasonable to me. @banteg thanks for the time on $EMN… #halfrekt

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well i agree with this person here, also lmao i think its not the right time to be asking for a raise… dont you think op?

28

The snapshot vote is just a signaling vote and is non-binding, it is for measuring sentiment.

29

@kx9x @Dankmonty @dudesahn The proposal says 150k with no unit of measure […] Is this 12.5K yUSD or USD equivalent? […] this is approximately 12.5k yUSD which is actually $14,500 at today’s price of yUSD ($1.16), or $174,000 yearly (not taking into account yUSD inflation).

The intent in the proposal was USD, not yUSD. I missed the part about salaries being yUSD-denominated.

Easy fix: the multisig holders should interpret this proposal a signal, and they decide the implementation details. They could for example interpret the 150K as a yearly floor: if by the end of the year the total USD value paid out to Artem is <150k, it’s topped up.

From my personal experience in the industry (late '19 early '20), 150K-250K is kind of the typical starting range for a senior dev position.

@Dinsey with regards to precedents set for future team payments.

There is no precedent. The community should instill merit-based compensation on a case by case basis.

@gabi YFI holders have financial benefit from the fees the system accrues, why not tie part of core devs remuneration (in addition to that salary) to those fees? […] The only danger I see is moral hazard where riskier strategies may be put in place

Ya incentives get weird here. I think the dependency of compensation on yUSD value should be enough of an incentive.

@TheSouthSeaCompany @Dankmonty @Dark it is inappropriate for governance to micromanage salary decisions in such an arbitrary way […] multisig has been authorized to make spending decisions including hiring

Sure, this proposal could be seen as a signal from the community… leaving the implementation details up to the multisig holders.

@fiestyfemale @Dankmonty regarding the arb activity…bad optics

Im not aware of this, do you have a link to more details?

@Dark I think all senior devs and junior devs should be paid the same.

That’s an interesting point. On the one hand it can prevent popularity contests, but on the other it removes the incentive to outperform. Worthy of further discussion.

@izayaa i think its not the right time to be asking for a raise… dont you think op?

If you are referring to the EMN episode, ya I agree YFI got caught in the cross-fire of that one.

4 Likes
30

I disagree. He purportedly lost money on EMN, any work he did was to also pay himself as part of receiving the distribution. He has received $80k+ in donations, for one day of work. He may be the only person who actually profited from this. He also gets paid to do dev work, and you can ignore reality but this was at least somewhat related to yEarn.

He also received a 25 YFI gift worth a cool $600k. He is compensated more than enough.

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31

I’m feeling a lot of negativity lately. I love the thoughtful discussion and debate around topics like this, and I love critique, but let’s just remember we’re in this together.

And fwiw, Artem gave away his whole salary last time—I mention that just because he’s awesome, not as a reason not to pay him more. I think he should be paid more but will leave it to the multisig to decide.

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32

Some of the edges in the above discussion likely would have been much less pronounces if there was a day or two of discussion before the snapshot vote started.

33

To be clear – the snapshot vote here is not a YIP, it is not binding. As has been said in this thread, it’s a signaling poll, just like the forum polls we used to do.

34

Understood, but as time goes by, the line between on-chain votes and snapshot votes grows blurier as a practical matter. This is especially true in this context since, as others pointed out, it is not clear a new YIP is a necessary prerequisite for raising the compensation of current team members.

1 Like
35

I know, this kind of usability stuff super bugs me too. But on the salary question, YIP-41 empowered the multisig to spend 200k/month budget. Salaries are part of that so it is not necessary to do a proposal. But it’s also great to do one, it helps inform the multisig. And also a YIP would supersede the multisig, so that’s always an option too.

Complicated! We have work to do to clarify and streamline all of this (though much of it is in the docs already).

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36

The complexity arising from the interplay of multiple sources for the exercise of authority and discretion is all the more reason to slow down and discuss this particular issue, since there is not a pressing need requiring immediate action.

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Good point re YIP41. Multisig already has the discretion for all of this. At this point, our discussions about compensation should primarily be theoretical and about further aligning incentives

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38

Is this vote still active?

I’m unable to vote though I have staked in https://ygov.finance/staking …what am I missing? I don’t see this proposal in https://ygov.finance/vote

Thanks!

39

This is not a formal YIP, but just a snapshot poll for sentiment.

https://snapshot.page/#/yearn/proposal/QmZmk2t8pjpqTF4dHmyGDvMzaSezxGSQR1yZoxLq6sPE1L

Snapshot is awesome because it lets someone vote with how much YFI they have staked, but does not cost any gas.

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40

I count 2x full-time since July, barely do anything but work and sleep.

Re: people discussing my private wallets, I’m baffled you know about them more than I do. The question is how does it relate to the topic. Besides being a dev, I’m a heavy-duty industrial farmer.

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