YIP-57: Funding Yearn's Future

Very well constructed initial proposal. Fully support funding Yearn’s contributors to keep building quality into the system.

*** Key takeaway:

  1. The funding raised requires detailed direction and planning on usage. A potential concurrent or complementing proposal expanding on the 1/3, 2/3 mint split in the above proposal would be ideal. Obviously not a “this is exactly how we will spend it” but a vision of how it could possibly be deployed - areas of focus, expected value, etc.

Expectations of Yearn and contributors will commensurately rise with the depth of funding.

What can I say, I’m neutral about this proposal in its current state. I’ll probably be a Yes after I see the vested “Retention package details”.

I think we should also pay attention to how the package details will affect the Gini coefficient: yearn.finance Holders

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What unlimited resources? YFI’s strategist and core team built the protocol by bootstrapping it at their own expense at first. There are none of them that require a small loan of a few million ether before they can create something that literally took last summer by storm in the middle of a global pandemic. This is a reasonable proposal in order to include surviving a bear market or necessitate eating more full teams/ecosystems for long term synergy.

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I’m not trying to be funny but whether it is short term arbs or long term growth strategies, yearn has some of the best minds at work and with the Iron Bank’s protocol to protocol no collateral needed loans for whitelisted agents like yearn, it will skyrocket very soon. There is not even overly optimistic views in this proposal just a reasonable number for what will be the go to yield aggregator for Defi.

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I support minting the additional YFI. The core devs need to be compensated, if we are to retain them long term. That is just the way it goes in tech. Without shares to compensate with, it would force Yearn to overpay in cash – so issuing the shares can be the more economic option. I am assuming the vesting schedules will be properly aligned to keep and retain our best.

I feel it would be reasonable to put together a roadmap of the profits in the future. It is a fair tradeoff to offer non core investors. One idea is to burn the minting keys – while the strict supply looks appealing on paper, this does not seem responsible to limit our capital options in the future.

Perhaps we adjust the BABY to limit the buybacks to a set percentage. Then distribute above this amount proportionally to YFI holders. Similar to a preferred/common stock structure where the amount would be an annual special dividend to YFI holders.

I hope we can pass something to keep Yearn’s core devs compensated. I think it would be fair to outline the future a little better if we are minting over 6000 additional YFI.

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Then there should be no problem to make TVL a part of vesting schedule. If we see a face melt growth then dev/team can benefits from the mint even sooner instead of waiting 4/5 years.

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I would seriously suggest looking at the several other ways to compensate developers and attract and retain talent. There are too many downsides to increasing the supply. The developers should be compensated well, and I propose that minting will hurt them.

Just my 2 cents…

*Quick question, if YFI is 89K in December 2022, will this proposal still surely fix developer compensation, retention and attraction?

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If we are going to mint coins, we should absolutely also make sure that the stakers/holders are getting dividends as well. I understand the devs needing to have skin in the game, and it’s extremely important. However, let’s do tokenomics right in such a way that both developers AND holders win equally and we can move on from this once and for all.

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I’m all for incentivizing contributors and a full time team. However, this proposal should:

  1. include vesting schedules to the proposal not have them separate. I’m more inclined to vote yes if there is vesting and a cliff. i think we should discuss total comp plan. $X/mo + YFI thats unlocked linearly over 3-4 years with the first unlock after 6 months.
  2. address whether the devs can also draw from the treasury if we’re minting such a large balance for incentives. early stage startups should typically re-invest cash flows in the business so i’m not necessarily suggesting this flow to YFI holders but that could attract new interest in the project.
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Thanks fully support.

To an amazing year ahead safe in the retention of all these amazing people.

Vesting to team over 4 years please like Curve.

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How about mint 5000 YFI and borrow stable coin against minted YFI and collect yield and pay for devs salary with stable coins yield strategy. Once the whole yearn ecosystem reaches a point where it generates enough fees to pay for devs, burn the minted 5000 YFI.

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Based on the comments and signaling vote there seems to be fairly strong directional support for the proposal, with a few areas of pushback:

  1. Too big of a mint
  2. Lack of clarity on comp distribution
  3. Mint keys should be burned
  4. We don’t need mint + BABY

Many great points have been brought up. While I can’t speak for anyone else, here are my personal thoughts on each:

1. Too big of a mint

As has been pointed out by many, with YFI at $30K this is a $200M mint. I get why this headline is triggering, but the current price doesn’t adjust for the volatility of YFI or the potential for a major drawdown caused by macro factors which are out of Yearn’s control. Today’s price action, for instance, shows the danger of thinking exclusively in terms of the current spot price. The reality is that YFI is in a period of price discovery, so we should discount its value appropriately to protect against the downside.

Instead of using current price, the way I think about the value of the mint is through the lens of a time-weighted average price (TWAP), which factors in the price movements over defined periods of time:

The TWAP lends a bit of perspective – instead of $200M, you might think of it as a range between $137 - $186M. There’s a bit of art to this, to be sure.

Another angle here is that the mint will be unlocked over years, so the minted YFI join the circulating supply slowly over time to ensure long-term alignment. In other words, the dilutive impact is spread out over years.

In terms of both absolute amounts and percentage of supply, both the team bucket and the treasury are on the smaller end when compared to peers. It doesn’t matter if Uniswap has a different use case and is a different type of org – everyone is competing for the same relatively small talent pool. It is amazing that Yearn has attracted the caliber of contributor that it has on a shoestring budget, but it is very likely not sustainable long-term due to the high and increasing opportunity cost for talent.

Finally, while we could leave the warchest to a future vote and just isolated the comp piece to get the total amount down, that would almost certainly put the community in the awkward position of needing to vote on a second mint for the treasury later. It lowers the cognitive load to have one decisive mint now that covers both, and both are important.

2. Lack of clarity on comp distribution

This is a very sensitive issue and it could be detrimental for core contributors to have this discussion in public. However, there should be sufficient checks in place such that the community can be sure that the process is done in good faith and is in line with market standards. This is a good point of pushback, and I think the proposal should provide sufficient assurances before it moves to an on-chain vote. We should not be having a forum discussion on specific allocations, but we should thoroughly talk through appropriate checks on a process level before ratifying a change this big.

3. Mint keys should be burned

The best argument for burning the keys is that it mitigates governance attacks and makes it harder for bad actors to misuse the mint in the future. This is a good argument.

My sense here is that burning the keys introduces fork risk and generally constrains what Yearn can do. Case in point: a few months ago, most voters signaled that they agreed with burning the keys, which would have precluded what most now believe to be a worthwhile mint.

I saw some discussions about timelocking the keys. That feels like a sensible middle ground to me, as it provides optionality while protecting against downside. Another additional protection could be an elevated threshold for decisions that require the mint keys.

At the end of the day, I don’t think anyone is going to die on this hill. If the community will only be happy with the keys burnt… then burn the keys. Unity is more important. But let’s at least thoroughly discuss the pros/cons of each approach.

4. We don’t need mint + BABY

The mint is more important in the near term and does things that BABY can’t for years, and that’s if Yearn is successful long-term. I think BABY’s helpful in addition to the needed mint and is philosophically sound: successful start-ups have a much higher return on investment than their cost of capital. That’s why dividends are generally only paid from mature stocks – re-investment is accretive if you have attractive growth opportunities. Amazon still doesn’t pay a dividend because it finds higher-return ways to invest that capital than handing it back to shareholders, and that has been a good strategy for AMZN shareholders.

On the other hand, maybe crypto is a different kind of thing. Maybe stakers demand cash flows today and paying dividends is actually a great staker acquisition strategy. It would probably make sense to have a payout ratio in BABY where we can vote on how much to put in treasury vs pay out in staking rewards. I would love to figure out the answer to that question so that we can collectively make the right call / optimize over time.

Anyway, these are just my 2 cents. I hope we can continue the great discussions and debates. The community response and level of engagement has been really encouraging to see and I think it’ll meaningfully improve the proposal.

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Thanks Aleks for neatly summing up the various contributor threads above. I’m hugely appreciating this thoughtful and inclusive dialogue too, despite my own somewhat lame contribution before. Sorry for that.

Expanding on you comp distribution para and it’s pretty much only @sachayves who has voiced it but that’s around how to incentivise people who are already exceptionally wealthy. I’m completely behind getting the devs some skin in the game, it’s critical. How that skin in the game is realised is super important… in my view it should not come in one hit, it should be vested over time against targets.

Thanks all.

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Checking In

I want to thank everyone for weighing in here, on discord, telegram, and twitter. The level of engagement and discourse is just outstanding and I’m honored to be on this ride with you all.

Where We’re At

@aleks-blockchaincap has provided a fantastic summary above of the feedback we’ve gotten through this discussion. There is a lot to think about here. Personally, I want to put forth the best YIP possible for yearn – not the one that appeals to the most people. The coauthors will decide together if there will be any changes to this proposal, and if so what those might be. We will listen to your feedback, and then make our choice. And then YFI holders will decide to approve it or not.

Should we chose to put this proposal forth as is, without any changes, and it passes, that does not mean the amendments you have all suggested above can’t be added though separate processes. Anyone can put forth a proposal at any time. If you want to put forth a proposal related to this one, dm me and I will help you regardless of my position on its content. If you want to engage more actively than through posting here, dm me with your thoughts on this proposal and process so far and I’ll add you to our telegram group.

Next Steps

Our governance process requires that any proposal discussion such as this last for a minimum of 72 hours before turning into a formal YIP to vote on. Considering the impact and engagement with this proposal, we will extend that a couple days more and plan to start the vote on Monday the 25th.

So please make sure to have your YFI staked in the governance contract or the YFI Vault before then to be eligible to vote. Only YFI in those two locations at the time of the snapshot will be able to vote.

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Echoing what @aleks-blockchaincap has posted above. As it stands, the proposal does not include burning the keys. While some in the community have asked for it, we believe that burning keys may handicap yearn down the road. A time-lock (status quo) with a high governance threshold seems like a sensible approach.

As DeFi evolves and grows, having the flexibility to adapt to conditions and remain competitive is imperative for the sustainable development and growth of protocols. It seems to me that while the probability of a mint down the road is low, it’s not zero and, therefore, we should not burn the keys.

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More or less my position on this. The sentiments expressed by @tracheopteryx regarding devs going out of pocket to cover audit expenses, late payroll–that’s simply unacceptable.

The downside of the “supply cap” cult is precisely what we’re seeing now: you need inflation and issuance to continue to have working capital.

Pay our devs. Pay them well, and make Yearn both a lucrative career AND a passion project for them.

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How will the team know the community has decided on this if the proposal above hasn’t been amended?

Like, how does Yearn discuss amendments to a proposal?

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The team is reconvening in a few days and getting feedback from the community to make some amendments to the current proposal. So it’s a great time for the whole community to provide feedback that can be included in the updated version that will be submitted for voting. This is how Yearn discusses amendments to a proposal :slight_smile:

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that’s great, thank you

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Yes! And one option is no changes too FYI

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