YIP-57: Funding Yearn's Future

While I absolutely agree that aligning incentives of Contributors is crucial to Yearn’s long-term success and talent retention/acquisition, I am somewhat concerned with the idea of minting new YFI that gets distributed by a small group of people to a designated “team” that currently represents what is likely an extremely small percentage of the total number of YFI holders. My reasons for concern are not because I feel that this team is not deserving of it (they certainly are deserving of it and much more in my opinion). Rather, my concern is that this pushes Yearn further away from the idealistic foundational mantra that ALL YFI holders should be Contributors to the protocol. This is not just an ideal initiated through a fair launch and subsequently perpetuated by Andre through his Medium post to get more involvement out of the community. This concept that all YFI holders should be Contributors is crucial when it comes to the YFI token’s identification as a security.

Does minting new tokens for distribution to a very small “team” place YFI any closer to being identified as a security? If YFI holders are participating in a speculative enterprise, where the vast majority of holders are not Contributors but are rather just holding, hoping for the token price to appreciate, because they are led to understand that a core team is being aggressively compensated for their contributions via this new war chest from the YFI mint, then in essence, most YFI holders that are not identified by the Compensation Working Group to be part of this core team would be relying on the work of the core team for YFI token price appreciation. I am by no means a securities law scholar, but based upon the Howey Test (whether you agree with it or not), I think it can be argued that this puts YFI much closer to being defined as a security.

While I absolutely agree with minting new YFI in order to reward Contributors in a way that is commensurate with the value that they add to Yearn, I think much more thought needs to be given to exactly who decides the rewards and how widely rewards are distributed, to avoid loss of the Contributor Culture that had made Yearn so special from its inception and that currently seems to put it farther outside of the security spectrum.

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A few folks (myself included) have asked if passage of this proposal would invalidate BABY. The authors of this proposal have not provided clarity one way or the other, but it increasingly seems the answer is no. Folks voting YES should understand they are most likely voting for the implementation of this proposal in addition to the implementation of BABY. I’d be happy to learn I’m wrong about this. Until such time, I’m a definite NO.

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No they don’t. Buybacks are meaningless if the bought back YFI is not burned. BABY proposes that the bought back YFI be held in the treasury to be spent later. The overhang of these holdings will impede the price appreciation one normally gets from buybacks.

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Very supportive of this proposal.

Yearn’s inflation and thus alignment with contributors has been a grey area for months. This proposal brings clarity to and confidence in the future of the protocol.

Of utmost importance is that contributors, particularly specialized developers, feel properly incentivized to take risk on the financial bottom line as well as the ideology of the protocol.

My only feedback is to request more clarity around how this appointed council will be elected and funds distributed. Detailing this beforehand will reduce confusion and communication overhead.

Onward and upward.

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Meme’s gotta die for Yearn to Fly x2

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Please start here for the relevant section of the proposal:

I understand people against minting would want the keys to be burned as a concession, but pragmatically it doesn’t really change anything.

Even if minting keys were burned the token could be migrated to a new token.

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Thanks @dudesahn, but I’m not sure what my takeaway from that section should be. Is it that BABY is necessary, but not sufficient? If so, I only see an argument that BABY is not sufficient. What I don’t see is an argument that BABY is necessary.

Why is BABY necessary in a world where an additional 6666 YFI is minted? Why won’t the 4444 YFI minted to the treasury be enough to cover eventualities?

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First of all I’ve been a big fan of Yearn and I am 100% in agreement that the devs should be compensated handsomely. I will continue to support efforts in this direction.

My feedback to this proposal is that it seems backwards. Ideally the details of said “Compensation Working Group” should be figured out and finalized before minting ~$200M out of thin air, a third of which goes to the devs. At a minimum, the details of the Compensation Working Group needs to be done in parallel. As it is right now, there are no details about the specifics of compensation, and most importantly, the vesting terms. Will the compensated devs have to vest for a year, 6 months, a couple weeks? It’s not a very effective proposal if the vesting terms allow the devs to cash out and sail off into the sunset. I want to keep the devs in the community, so I feel that it is only fair that there should be advanced discussions about vesting before finalizing this.

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My take is that it only works if it’s with BABY. BABY buybacks helps mitigate mint inflation/dilution and makes a sound monetary policy/full circle. I’d be more afraid of a one time mint with no plan to keep the treasury maintained long term.

I was initially in the anti mint camp, but after thinking about the dynamics with BABY it made more sense to me.

Think of it like realized vs unrealized inflation:

  • Mint ~22% (unrealized like QE; unlike Bitcoin which is realized via immediate distro to miners)

  • 2021 team distribution (1/3 comp, 2/3 treasury for development…out of that 1/3 comp how much is vested and distributed this year? Let’s say 10%. So that’s like 3.3% of 22% =0.73% inflation)

  • 2021 team dumping (worst case, let’s say 1/3 of team dumps this year… =0.23% annual inflation or like 70YFI

  • 0.2YFI market inflation/dumpage per day… would that make any price impact? Yes about $1/day (source:1inch slip)!

Will YFI marketcap grow faster than 0.23% annually or price grow faster than $1/day? Yes.

Could our BABY :baby: grow faster than 0.2 YFI/day? :thinking: Likely. (Or make your own math/spreadsheet and share, love to hear other takes…

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How’d we go from mint 1k to 3333 to 6666 lmao

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It won’t be when these devs leave bc they’re rich lmao. Yfi is dead

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First it’s mint 3,333, now 6,666. What is it going to be tomorrow, 9,999?

Onwards and upwards. I’m not going to get into bitter sounding arguments around what devs are worth and how many YFI it takes to melt a face. I’m in this, I’m with you, I believe. Make it work. Fix the damn UI … get an award winning UX designer to work on it, it’s a shambles.

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Can the minting of YFI be made into a DAC Dominant assurance contract?

Amoveo has tried to use this on a small scale.

The idea here is there seems to be a dilution of existing holders, and also other things such as money printer go brrr. A DAC can help someone understand that if the minting created additional benefits to the YFI ecosystem, if not then the additional YFI won’t be mint.

It ensures that both the developers and holders remain in check over minting.

I imagine it can be a new proposal in itself for how to mint it and might require discussion on metrics to be used for it - TVL, or overall transaction fees or something else?

1000-3333-6666,what a move!

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I’d like to:

  1. Mint ~10% of extra tokens (33333 in total) over next 3-5 years
  2. Burn the keys
  3. Split minted tokens in 1 to 5 proportion (20% goes to the key devs & the rest goes to the treasury and gets distributed later).

We shouldn’t compare this process to the other projects because when you start a new thing you’re trying to:

  1. play it safe and mint some extra tokens to make sure devs will get paid well even if the token doesn’t reach the “target price”.
  2. mint tokens before starting the project, so people & investors know the amount of tokens in advance & the rules are clear. In this case (YFI) we’re in the middle of the project & people were promised to have a limited supply of 30k tokens, so now they’re losing confidence in the project.

Regarding the concern that “we” went from 1000, to 3,333, to 6,666 . . . I have to say this makes me laugh, and cry a little too. It just shows how different yearn is as an entity and how little it’s understood. And it seems no matter how hard we try to communicate and be transparent, there is still so much we all need to learn about this new form of organization.

Imagine a traditional company wants to print new shares. They come out with their messaging “we want to print 10,000 shares for x, y, and z reasons.” It’s a solid plan and sounds great. People vote yes and hooray! Do you think they didn’t consider other numbers? Do you think they just immediately created a perfect plan with no experimentation first or brainstorming? Of course not, they tried 1,000, they tried 5,000, they tried 25,000 and their models landed on 10,000. They just did it in secret.

We do it in the open. We do it in the open and some people are so used to being manipulated by media campaigns they see our sincere and open process as a scam. It’s disheartening, but in the age of conspiracy theories it’s something we all have to get used to.

Just to take it a step further, let me explain from my PoV how this process has gone.

We’ve been running yearn on a shoestring budget from the get go. I took a salary 1/10th of my previous compensation because I love Yearn and it’s literally the most exciting thing in the world to me. So have many others. We work nonstop. We ship like no one else. Do we make mistakes? Yes we do, and we learn, and we do it all messy in the open because we are something new, we’re a decentralized network, not a top-down company.

I’ve seen our team get poached. I’ve seen other protocols offer $90,000 PER WEEK to attract devs. We pay most of our devs NOTHING. Some get ~$10k PER MONTH. The fact that we have any team left is astounding, the people at yearn are not here for the money. But how is that sustainable? We are going to keep losing people. And we are burning out because we are under-resourced.

The amount of audits we are doing is crazy, some cost over 6 figures. These new bills come in and do you know what the discussion is on the ops team? It’s about giving up our ~$10k per month salary to pay them. We pay people out of pocket to make things happen fast and avoid worrying the team. We’ve paid the whole team a month late once.

In DeFi today, how does this make any sense to you?

In recent months we’ve seen the cracks forming. Money has become an existential problem for Yearn. How is YFI going to do with no Yearn team? Or a Yearn team of burned out underpaid workers doing 10 jobs and unpaid volunteers flowing in and out picking up the pieces?

So we came up with BABY. At that time we hadn’t even considered minting as an option. BABY didn’t get us to where the rest of DeFi is in terms of compensation or treasury, but at least it might help staunch the bleeding. And once v2 TVL kicks up it starts looking pretty good. But as you can see from the sensitivities in our proposal, it’s not enough.

We thought we didn’t have any other options, so BABY was it. Then @yfi_lit made his proposal for a mint. For the record, no one on the core team knew who @yfi_lit was. Then all of a sudden, while the BABY proposal was already in progress, minting was an option.

Why was it an option? Not because the devs decided to ram minting through – because we listen to the community and the community told us it was an option.

At this point, seeing the feedback we were getting, and the incredible amount of support we had, creative energy just started exploding. Why 1,000? Maybe 3,333 was better? 33,333 is a nice meme, boom, now there’s a meme. But then we set in for the hard work of actually crunching the numbers and it turned out 6,666 was a better fit (see our reasoning in the proposal).

Now while most things in yearn happen in the open, some do not. Yes, there are many private discussions in yearn, just like in any other network. One of these discussions is around compensation packages. I and a few others built a number of detailed models for compensating the team. We consulted top industry experts, some of whom are coauthors of this proposal. We arrived at a reasonable and face melting plan. We are not sharing it yet because it’s really fucking sensitive and not finished! It’s an estimate done to arrive at the mint number. It needs more work. I’m not going to share an estimate for how much each contributor is going to get paid before it’s ready to offer to each team member. They deserve to hear it first and only after it’s been fully vetted through a solid process.

That’s why we will do the Compensation Working Group. This is the way. This is how Yearn actually works: small groups of dedicated people doing the work, getting feedback, and submitting it to the multisig for approval. We are actively working on this plan. We can only do so much at once. We would love your feedback on this process. I am fine trusting our dedicated team and supportive community to do this properly after the mint has been passed (if it passes).

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I will vote yes.

Long term, this is very good for the project :slight_smile:

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A car without fuel cannot move forward, so yes, let’s fill it up and move forward in the long term, obviously I vote yes.

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