# Empower the Multisig **URL:** \ **Category:** Vaults\ **Created:** [19 August 2020 22:05 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891 "2020-08-19T22:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![learnyearn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/learnyearn/32/662_2.png) [@learnyearn](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/learnyearn)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 06:13 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/21 "2020-08-20T06:13:01Z")
We propose a YIP to ban @cshao from $YFI permanently. This is **likely a psyop from a competing protocol.** Why else would a brand new account start responding under a thread about pushing $YFI further? Just nonsense to slow us down. Stay woke people the game has changed. If we don’t change with it, we will be left behind. Empower the multi-sig immediately. ---
**Author:** ![learnyearn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/learnyearn/32/662_2.png) [@learnyearn](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/learnyearn)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 06:13 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/22 "2020-08-20T06:13:32Z")
> [@cshao](#): > > ow much $YFI does multisig hold? > > Edit: It actually doesn’t matter. You don’t even know anything about the treasury. This is complete bullshit psyop to slow us down. Ban this fool. ---
**Author:** ![CryptoCap](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/cryptocap/32/862_2.png) [@CryptoCap](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/CryptoCap)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 06:30 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/23 "2020-08-20T06:30:40Z")
I definitely support this. For the sake of efficiency YFI needs to organize, especially in the short term. We are growing rapidly and should work to meet that demand ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![cshao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cshao](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/cshao)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 06:58 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/24 "2020-08-20T06:58:30Z")
@banteg – I understand the appeal of centralizing power in order to accelerate progress. But this is a short-term solution, which creates a fatter-tail catastrophic risk (by incentivizing bad actors). I’d also argue that you could get near identical results with a bounty program. No use in debating further though, I feel I’ve laid out all my arguments. Ultimately this is going to come down to the risk tolerance of the community, which is clearly much higher than mine 🙂 @learnyearn – it may be hard to build a strong community to replace/dissolve multisig if this is how you welcome newcomers. But maybe that isn’t your goal? …few understand 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![0xmt](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/0xmt/32/839_2.png) [@0xmt](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/0xmt)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 09:06 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/25 "2020-08-20T09:06:32Z")
Dissenting and diverse opinions are valuable, thank you for sharing yours. I’m in the pro-foundation camp, and believe that a system where YFI token holder’s green light a budget for the multisig, will be an acceptable compromise between decentralized governance, and centralized speed and planning. ---
**Author:** ![tarek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@tarek](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/tarek)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 09:52 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/26 "2020-08-20T09:52:56Z")
I am all for this, but this must be implemented in an audited smart contract that expires after 6 months. Having the council refuse to give up its powers after the term is over should not be an option. ---
**Author:** ![tracheopteryx](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/tracheopteryx/32/3979_2.png) [@tracheopteryx](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/tracheopteryx)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 10:07 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/27 "2020-08-20T10:07:30Z")
🌐 _VOTING FOR_ ✨✨✨✨✨✨✨ * * * 👨‍🔬 **Some Theory** 🐛 Decentralization is not a binary state, it’s a characteristic of living organisms (like this collective body) that ebbs and flows through phases of organizational development. For instance, the highly decentralized caterpillar digests itself into a more centralized cellular slurry ruled by groups of imaginal cells in order to construct a new, further decentralized butterfly body orders of magnitude more complex than the caterpillar [[1](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/caterpillar-butterfly-metamorphosis-explainer/)]. The question is not between doing everything in this DAO or forming a leadership team—it’s about how to grow into an organization with multiple independent, collaborative, and autonomous teams composed of self-managed, passionate community members. This is the future of organizational development [[2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_organisation), [3](https://streamr-public.s3.amazonaws.com/governance-whitepaper-2020-05-21-v1_1.pdf)]—the future that we at yearn are on the absolute leading edge of. And this proposal is a reasonable and thoughtful next step. * * * 🗝 **Some Key Points** ☝ I love this proposal, and want to call attention to a couple key points: > [@Substreight](#): > > This change would allow **operational decisions** to be made at a rapid pace for the next six (6) months It’s critical to point out that this is not a proposed takeover. This council would only make decisions for how to use the capital that our YIP-36 approval has already allocated to operations. Having founded four successful companies I know from experience that trying to make the kinds of granular decisions needed for yearn to thrive right now in this forum would be a disaster. But, this forum is _amazing_ and has a critical, big-picture role. > [@Substreight](#): > > the goal of handing authority off to **a multi-DAO structure.** Right now we only have one approved decision-making process: on-chain voting. Though executed in a decentralized manner, that’s a _centralization_ of our decision-making capabilities. **We need a diversity of decision-making systems in order to flourish**. Human bodies are far more decentralized than is commonly understood: we have the equivalent of a cat brain in our hearts, a rat brain in our guts, and peripheral ganglia make tons of independent decisions [[4](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244019837439), [5](https://spinalresearch.com.au/three-brains-head-heart-gut-sometimes-conflict/)]. This council is a good first step towards a multi DAO system with a range of capabilities. Think of the council as a form of further specialized and limited functionality—and under the purview of this DAO which can vote to change it as needed. With the council we will have a second approved decision making faculty better suited to the kind of lean and rapid decision-making necessary for operations. * * * 🗣 **Specific Feedback for @Substreight** 📈 I think there is a way to improve the effectiveness and holistic integrity of the council. We have a lovely emergent system of special interest (SI) groups growing. For example, look at the progress happening in the Frontend-Design discord channel. Eventually these groups could become fully-functional organs with autonomous value-forming, sense-making, and decision-making capabilities. _Suggestion_: have 1–2 representatives from each SI group join the council as non-voting members. The benefits being: 1. Help the council stay informed of work happening on the ground levels 2. Help the community feel integrated into the council’s process 3. Sow the seeds for the multi DAO future 4. It’s inline with models advocated for by luminary organizational thinkers like Frederic Laloux [[6](https://reinventingorganizationswiki.com/Organizational_Structure)], Jos de Bloc [[7](https://www.buurtzorg.com/jos-de-blok-founder-and-ceo-buurtzorg/)], and Brian Robertson [[8](https://www.holacracy.org/constitution)]. Here are the SI groups I am aware of (I am part of a few): - Governance (discord) - Frontend Design (discrod) - Roadmap Discussion (discord) - yDAO (telegram) - Discord and Telegram Mods (no formal channel afaik but worth including) * * * Hope this is helpful. It’s literally thrilling to see the creature we are forming take its first steps on dry land… ---
**Author:** ![tracheopteryx](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/tracheopteryx/32/3979_2.png) [@tracheopteryx](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/tracheopteryx)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 10:49 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/28 "2020-08-20T10:49:44Z")
And for reference, the list of multi-sig members is in our sparkling new FAQ: [https://faq.yearn.finance/#who-are-the-9-multisig-signers](https://faq.yearn.finance/#who-are-the-9-multisig-signers) ---
**Author:** ![Piet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9adbd/32.png) [@Piet](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/Piet)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 10:56 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/29 "2020-08-20T10:56:12Z")
Although I’m mostly in favour of the proposal, I do see a few issues. - The multisig members were chosen by Andre, and I’m sure he chose a good bunch of people. I am not sure if they are good representatives of the wider YFI community tho. - I would also propose to work on a more detailed budget and make a budgetary expenditure limit based on that. - Some sort of alternative dispute system might be necessary because passing a YIP has a very high barrier. And thus limiting the power of the community on smaller issues(i know that’s partly the point of it all). ---
**Author:** ![Dark](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/dark/32/307_2.png) [@Dark](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/Dark)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 11:53 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/30 "2020-08-20T11:53:11Z")
Sounds good to me, let’s do it! ---
**Author:** ![digitaloil](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/digitaloil/32/763_2.png) [@digitaloil](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/digitaloil)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 12:10 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/32 "2020-08-20T12:10:18Z")
How do you ensure handover back to the community? ---
**Author:** ![cnumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cnumber](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/cnumber)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 12:14 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/33 "2020-08-20T12:14:14Z")
This seems like distraction imo…the important point is to back the early team with a careful pivot towards long term decentralization… im sure the community will back the people who are working harder than anyone for yearn at this point… ---
**Author:** ![cnumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cnumber](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/cnumber)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 12:17 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/34 "2020-08-20T12:17:19Z")
Great feedback…i agree with ur points. This is a beautiful grand experiment. ---
**Author:** ![0xmt](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/0xmt/32/839_2.png) [@0xmt](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/0xmt)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 13:33 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/35 "2020-08-20T13:33:12Z")
This can be programmed into the multi-sig smart contract. Very easy to do. ---
**Author:** ![point](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/point/32/688_2.png) [@point](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/point)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 16:12 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/36 "2020-08-20T16:12:34Z")
I like the proposal. When pulling budgeted funds from the Treasury, will attempts be made to keep it above the $500k threshold? Keeping the rewards flowing to staked YFI holders after the Treasury is filled would be a nice goal. ---
**Author:** ![SheckyGreen](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/sheckygreen/32/621_2.png) [@SheckyGreen](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/SheckyGreen)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 16:13 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/37 "2020-08-20T16:13:25Z")
Very strong proposal, I fully support it. Even a decentralized organization needs professionals taking charge of verticals. We need to make decisions and execute in this extremely fast moving space. Andre is innovating at light speed, the business side has a ton of work to do to catch up. Let’s start this, the sooner the better. I was an early exec at Medium, the online writing platform, and it operated under a Holocracy (a form of decentralized organization structure.). The company was well-funded, hired top professionals in engineering, design, editorial, product management, and all had to write our own OKR (objectives and key results) and answer to them every quarter, in a community setting. We’re at the start of a fantastic, life-changing, society-shifting project here, but we’ve only done about 1% of the “front end” work needed to be ready for the challenge. ---
**Author:** ![brian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@brian](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/brian)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 16:50 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/38 "2020-08-20T16:50:44Z")
Let’s turn this into a YIP! ---
**Author:** ![n00b](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/n00b/32/334_2.png) [@n00b](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/n00b)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 17:08 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/39 "2020-08-20T17:08:02Z")
I would vote FOR this. Let the community vote on the bigger decisions and let the multisig/devs/Andre handle the more granular decisions. They need freedom to execute. ---
**Author:** ![Yakul](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/yakul/32/653_2.png) [@Yakul](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/Yakul)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 17:29 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/40 "2020-08-20T17:29:44Z")
I trust the Kirby @learnyearn voted For. Few… ---
**Author:** ![Substreight](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.yearn.fi/substreight/32/114_2.png) [@Substreight](https://gov.yearn.fi/u/Substreight)\ **Post date:** [20 August 2020 19:53 UTC](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891/41 "2020-08-20T19:53:06Z")
This is all wonderful feedback. Thank you everyone. Am going to digest these notes today and will update tomorrow. [Previous page](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://gov.yearn.fi/t/empower-the-multisig/2891.md?page=3)